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Text File | 1991-11-17 | 36.5 KB | 1,005 lines | [TEXT/McSk]

************ Topic 4 Wed May 15, 1991 MACINFO [Norm Goodger] at 18:39 EDT Sub: Hints & Tips Dusting off the new Category a little, lets discuss hints and tips that might be buried in the docs that everyone might find handy.. 96 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 1 Sun Jul 07, 1991 J.SCOTT16 [J. Scott] at 04:09 EDT Does anybody get the feeling that Apple will be VERY reluctant to release a system 7.1? They were so late in getting it out that the last thing they need is for a bunch of bugs to crop up. So far, thank goodness, they don't need to... ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 2 Sun Jul 07, 1991 DREID [Uncle Dave] at 12:40 EDT Except to correct the horrible slowness of imagewriter printing and the floppy disk mount and remount problem. I worked around the Imagewriter problem by installing a PLPII printer. Much faster and better. The old imagewriter is now a permanent adjunct to Thunderscan. Unk ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 3 Sun Jul 07, 1991 BART.BARTON at 16:45 EDT From what I've read and heard, the next release of 7.0 will be with the notebook computers to be announced/released in October. ..... Bart ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 4 Sun Jul 07, 1991 J.SCOTT16 [J. Scott] at 23:48 EDT Somebody said something about an upgrade from SuperSpool to SuperLaserSpool but I just got off the phone with Fifth Generation Systems, and they said that they would be upgrading SuperSpool so that it works with 7.0. ...And I was hoping to get a discount copy of SLS for my Deskwriter :( ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 5 Mon Jul 08, 1991 APKENNEDY at 00:05 EDT MS.RAINBO Thanks for the response. This debate will rage for some time!! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 6 Mon Jul 08, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 03:18 EDT I certainly hope Apple will speed up ImageWriter printing at least to what is was under System 6.0.x! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 7 Tue Jul 09, 1991 DREID [Uncle Dave] at 20:43 EDT I noticed a recent upload showing how to modify old bitmapped fonts so that they have a FOND resource. The method given probably works but... There seems to be some confusion about Font/DA mover and Sys 7.0. It is possible to move fonts to System 7.0 with Font/DA mover PROVIDING it is v 4.1 or higher (Don't think theres a higher yet.). Use it in the same old way for fonts. It doesn't work for DAs but that's no problem. Anyway, back to the old font problem. Open Font/DA mover 4.1 and copy the old fonts to the System file and they will magically now have FOND resources. 4.1 won't move fonts out of an open system folder but they can be moved in the System 7.0 way back into their old suitcases. It seems to me to be easier than with the ResEdit thing. I kinda enjoy the ResEdit thing, but only as a last resort. The Font DA Mover 4.1 is in the library as 20178. Uncle Dave - lazy in NC ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 8 Wed Jul 10, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 04:37 EDT Everything was going fine until I decided to move some of the desk accessories in my Apple Menu Items folder into a suitcase and let Suitcase II 1.2.10 open the suitcase. (Why did I do this? There's a limit of about 50 items in the Apple Menu Items folder which can be displayed in the Apple Menu. You can get around this limit by having Suitcase open a suitcase instead.) Then when I tried to open some (but not every) of those Suitcase-opened desk accessories, all I got was a beep. One curious fact about the ones that didn't work and the ones that did: the ones that didn't work (e.g. miniWriter) all show up with hierarchical menus under Now menus. The ones that did work do not show up with hierarchical menus. (Note: I turned off all other extensions including Now menus and the problem persisted.) Don, or anyone else who's using Suitcase with desk accessories, what am I missing? (Gann, note that I correctly identified Don this time. Your memory burn-in is being repaired!) Even curiouser... While I was playing around with Suitcase, I set the PowerUser setting to have it modify the boot blocks to allow 20 suitcases instead of the 12 it had been set to. Then whenever I would use a menu/DA QuicKey (made with the new version 2.1), it would pick an Apple menu item which was shifted one off alphabetically from the one I wanted! (This problem seems familiar but I don't remember the circumstances!) I fixed this problem by having Suitcase put itself in the Apple menu in alphabetical order rather than sorted to the top. Was it a mistake to modify the boot blocks? Has this feature really been tested under System 7? This strange QuicKey problem only started after I modified the boot blocks. Is there any way I can rewrite untouched System 7 boot blocks without reinstalling the System? Do any of my experiences resonate with anyone out there? Help!!!! ___ | \_|IM P.S. Now I remember when I have I seen this problem. In a 5/18/91 message in topic 8 I responded to Gann, who said that Suitcase II seems to perform better if placed at the root level of the System folder rather than in the Extensions folder. I reported that when I moved Suitcase out to the root level that I observed that my QuicKeys macros (using version 1.2 at that time) were again one off. The puzzling thing is that in the earlier case, Suitcase was sorted to the top in both cases; its location in the System folder seemed to make the difference. Now, it's Suitcase's position in the menu which seems to make the difference. And my new problem only occurred after using Suitcase to problematically load DA suitcases and modifying the boot blocks. I'm even more puzzled! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 9 Wed Jul 10, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 05:00 EDT Well, I reset the boot blocks (I guess) by hiding my Finder so that it looked like I didn't have a System folder, then installing a minimal system, which I trashed. Anyway, the max number of Suitcases returned to 12, but my problem remained: QuicKeys menu/DA macros chose the wrong Apple menu item if Suitcase is sorted to the top of the Apple menu. Everything works fine if Suitcase is sorted alphabetically. Puzzled in Oakland... ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 10 Wed Jul 10, 1991 DON.PEASLEE [Don] at 11:01 EDT Jim, I'm not using Now Menus, and I too have found problems when modifying the boot blocks under 7. Other than that, I'm not going to be much help here, because I can't duplicate your problem(s) with Suitcase. Since you're getting hierarchical menus even though Now Menus is shut off with the DAs that don't work, it sounds as if Now Menus might have done something? ____Don P.S. I have Suitcase II in the Extensions Folder loading after the Extensions Manager. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 11 Wed Jul 10, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 22:09 EDT Don, Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify... I don't still get hierarchical menus when Now Menus is disabled. Rather, using Now Menus allowed me to serendipitously observe a common thread between the desk accessories I could call up and the ones that I could not: The ones which didn't work were exactly the ones which appeared with hierarchical menus when Now Menus was in use. One difference between loading desk accessories with Suitcase and putting them into the Apple Menu Items folder: The small icon in the Apple Menu is just the generic application icon when Suitcase loads them and it's the customized icon when they reside in the Apple Menu Items folder. ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 12 Thu Jul 11, 1991 LINEFEED [Lou] at 00:54 EDT You guys are using NOW Menus under 7.0? When I treid it, it popped up the menu bar no matter where I clicked on the screen... ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 13 Thu Jul 11, 1991 PHOTOBASE [Sparks] at 01:26 EDT Ok, I have been lurking for a while now, but this morning I made the big plung into the kingdom of 7.0. Simple question, where do fonts go. I have them in a folder called Fonts in the extension folder. I had to use Suitcase to make them available to the system. More complex question. On boot up after most CDEV's and stuff load I get a beep and a dialog box saying, " Disk Error on Opening Dictionaries Error number -43". I think its part of my Pagemaker 4.01 set up. Any ideas? Sparks ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 14 Thu Jul 11, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 03:31 EDT I've got Suitcase 1.2.10 back in the Extensions folder....works fine...for now. Jim-- How *DARE* you confuse me with Don! :-) ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 15 Thu Jul 11, 1991 DREID [Uncle Dave] at 03:53 EDT Fonts go folderless in the Extensions folder. It's messy but that's the way it is. Unk ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 16 Thu Jul 11, 1991 MACINFO [Norm Goodger] at 04:01 EDT Sparks if you are using Suitcase, you can use them anywhere. If you open the suitcase by double-clicking and move the contents to the System Folder Icon they will be moved into the System file. If you drag them to the System file itself, again they will be installed in the System file. If you double-click the System file you can install or remove fonts or sounds. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 17 Thu Jul 11, 1991 DON.PEASLEE [Don] at 13:19 EDT Due to the large size of this Topic, earlier messages have been archived and are now available in Library 10 of the Software Libraries (P 605, Option 3). ____Don ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 18 Thu Jul 11, 1991 BART.BARTON at 15:49 EDT Sparks, by chance do you have to indicate the path for the dictionaries you're using? This sounds awfully close to the message I got when I first loaded Thunder 7 under 7.0. I had to go into Thunder and reload all the Thunder 7 dictionary files so it would know where I have them within my system folder. ..... Bart ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 19 Thu Jul 11, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 21:34 EDT Lou, It sounds like you might have "Popup menu bar on desktop" checked in the configure dialog accessed via the control panel for NowMenus. --- Some of my earlier QuicKeys problems were caused by the fact that somehow I have both versions 1.2 and 2.1 installed! That must have confused my poor Mac even more than it confused me! I still have a Suitcase problem with DAs. I had all of my DAs in a suitcase and I could not open miniWriter. When I moved it to its own suitcase, it worked fine. ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 20 Thu Jul 11, 1991 D-W-B [David B] at 22:23 EDT Jim, You have no idea how relieved to hear that I wasn't the only poor schmuck with both versions of QuicKeys installed. Your Mac may have been confused, but _I_ was ready to tear my hair out! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 21 Thu Jul 11, 1991 LINEFEED [Lou] at 23:08 EDT Yes, but the popup menu isn't suppodes to pop up when you click on an icon or in a window... Only if you cli ck outside... Under System 7.0 it pops up when you click ANYWHERE... ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 22 Fri Jul 12, 1991 PHOTOBASE [Sparks] at 02:22 EDT Bart, you hit the nail right on the head. I noticed today that Thunder was turned off in Pagemaker so I got to poking around and noticed exactly what you said ... the dictionarys had no data path. I removed the old ones, and reopened... no more warning dialog boxes!! Good call kido!! Guys is there any reason to use suitcase vs. using them folderless in the Extensions folders? Is one way better than the other? Sparks ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 23 Fri Jul 12, 1991 JACKS at 03:01 EDT Speaking of hints... I have a IIci(just purchased) and a Personal Lazer- writer LS ( also just purchased) I need a hint on how to get system 7.0 to talk to my LW LS. System 6.07 works fine, but 7 just tells me there is n no LW LS connected. I put it in the extensions folder in the system folder and it shows up in control panel and in the page setup and print dialogue boxes, but no cigar. First impact, Macdraw, whatever, it makes no d difference. It just will not talk to the LS. Any hints? Jack ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 24 Fri Jul 12, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 05:07 EDT Are you sure the cable is connected to the right port? Is the cable defective? Did you select the LaserWriter LS in the Chooser? ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 25 Fri Jul 12, 1991 D.BULLARD at 08:22 EDT When you did an installl of System 7, the LS driver would have been put into t into the correct folder (the extensions folder). Anyhow, put it there and restart and (assuming the things Gann suggested check out OK) you should be in business. I too have a IIci and an LS. Works fine. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 26 Fri Jul 12, 1991 R.ZEITMAN4 [Randy] at 08:51 EDT Question please: Does it take (or used to take) five fast shift clicks to uinvoke Easy Access or just 5 shifts in a row. I'm finding that Easy access kicks in on 7.0 alot more than 6.0 without my planning. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 27 Fri Jul 12, 1991 MS.RAINBO at 13:05 EDT Easy Access doesn't seem to time the interval between keystrokes - which makes sense when you think about it. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 28 Fri Jul 12, 1991 MAC.BIGOT [Chuq] at 18:25 EDT Easy Access is not timing dependent. It's designed specifically for folks with physical limitations that might make dealing with such timing impossible -- so writing that kind of code would defeat the purpose. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 29 Fri Jul 12, 1991 R.ZEITMAN4 [Randy] at 18:29 EDT Gotcha. Does makes sense. Time to trash it, oh well. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 30 Sat Jul 13, 1991 PHOTOBASE [Sparks] at 00:21 EDT Jack, not that I know that much ( I just call John), but it sure sounds like a driver or connection. Your machine just does not SEE the printer. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 31 Sat Jul 13, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 00:31 EDT Doesn't it seem like it would be more consistent with the "put-away windows when option is held down" philosophy of the new System that, if you're holding down the option key when you select an application from the Apple Menu, then the application you're leaving should have its windows put away? It doesn't do this for me. Any votes either way? ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 32 Sat Jul 13, 1991 BOZO.CLOWN at 08:10 EDT I just uploaded a revised Excel 3.0 add-in that works around the bug in Excel 3.0 when running under 7.0 which causes Excel to set the default folder to the folder containing the application instead of the folder containing the document. The revised version adds a Set Default Folder item to the Options menu. File: EXCEL3.0StartupFix1.1.CPT Addr: BOZO.CLOWN Desc: Adds Set Default Folder to Option menu Number: 20350 Macintosh Software Library: #8 The Excel 3.0 "Set Default Folder" add-in is based on David Wortendyke's (MS Excel Support) suggestion with a fix for documents at the root level. Good Seven, Bozo Clown ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 33 Sat Jul 13, 1991 E.KEITH1 [Ed] at 19:49 EDT Thanks again Bozo, seems I had "locked out" library 8 and couldn't see your file. ->Ed ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 34 Sun Jul 14, 1991 DICKVELDHUIS at 02:46 EDT Jack, I have a Iici and Personal LaserWriter LS working fine under System 7. In the System Folder I have "Personal LW LS Alias" Also I have Print Monitor Alias & Print Monitor Documents Folder In the Extensions folder I have "Personal LW LS" and "Print Monitor Documents Folder" Alias. I'm sure one or the other isn't needed, but when I first installed S7, my printer didn't work, so I just dumped alias files everywhere and now that it works, I haven't finished cleaning up what's remaining. If you want to talk about it on voice, call me at 206-886-1628. Dick Veldhuis ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 35 Sun Jul 14, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 05:34 EDT Bozo-- I never got the first version you uploaded to work. Had it in the right folder, but it didn't work. I hope this one does! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 36 Sun Jul 14, 1991 BOZO.CLOWN at 09:17 EDT Gann-- I've had one other comment about not getting my Excel Startup Fix Add-in to work. That one was fixed by making sure the add-in was in the Excel Startup Folder in the Preferences Folder of the System Folder. Good Seven, Bozo Clown ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 37 Mon Jul 15, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 04:12 EDT Bozo-- As I stated, I installed you add-in in the proper folder...but that's ok. Your latest one works fine. Thanks. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 38 Tue Jul 16, 1991 E.KEITH1 [Ed] at 00:57 EDT Gann, I've gotten Bozo's fix to work (Thanks Bozo) but I had to change the name of the Excel folder. I believe the name is case sensitive! -- so watch out for those CaPs -- the folder name is Excel Startup Folder in the Preferences folder. If I recall, Excel created the folder name with a lower case "f". ->Ed ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 39 Tue Jul 16, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 04:55 EDT Nope. My folder was named with a "F" by the installer... ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 40 Tue Jul 16, 1991 K.EVANS3 (Forwarded) Here's an interesting little thing In the Monitors CDEV in System 7.0, try this... Bring up the CDEV Click on the "7.0" in the upper right hand corner and 6 names and a smiley face will appear Press the OPTION key and the smiley face changes Press the OPTION key 12 times and the names start to change Cute... Keith ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 41 Tue Jul 16, 1991 DRACO [Kent] at 11:39 EDT How do people figure these things OUT???? I heard that if you hold down the COMMAND/OPTION/SHIFT key wil bringing up the Control pannel, and standing on your left (not right) leg and singing "Duetchland Uber Alles", that a picture of Gassee will appear and will wave the French Flag. Just rumor. I mean who DOES these things? ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 42 Tue Jul 16, 1991 HOSB.GUEST at 19:35 EDT My favorite INITs/CDEVs/EXTs: I know I'm always curious about what's new for the Mac, so in hopes of hearing more from others, here is a list of some of my favorite INITs, CDEVs, and system EXTENSIONs with accompanying version numbers, that I use with system 7. In the Control Panels folder: Extensions Manager 1.1, DialogFilter 1.02, DiskExpress II 2.07a, Mouse2 1.4a cdev, SCSIProbe 3.0.1 CDEV, SuperClock! 3.9 CDEV, ~Super Boomerang 2.0.3, and ~Super Boomerang Fixer. In the Extensions folder: EM Extension (goes with Extensions Manager 1.1), B.A.D. INIT 1.1, CEToolbox 1.6, DiskDoubler 3.7 stuff, IconWrap 1.2, and Suitcase II 1.2.10. In the System 7.0 folder: QuicKeys 2.0.1 (haven't received my upgrade to QuicKeys 2.1 yet), NotePad++ File (corresponds to NotePad++ 1.2 DA), DiskTop Extras 1.0 (corresponds to DiskTop 4.0.1 DA). . . . David . . . ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 43 Tue Jul 16, 1991 J.STEELE15 [Jeff] at 20:33 EDT Although, this may be common knowledge, it is the first I have heard of it. But if your using QuicKeys 2.1, bring up the about QuicKeys screen and wait about 30 seconds. Pretty funny. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 44 Tue Jul 16, 1991 K.EVANS3 at 20:59 EDT Kent, Actually, I can upon it quite accidentally. I like to at least click on everything that I see :-) I stumbled upon the key pressing by hitting the OPTION key while reaching for something next to the keyboard. Then I like the effect of the smiley face changing, which in turn led to the names changing! Keith ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 45 Tue Jul 16, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 21:13 EDT Under System 7, virtual memory yields a lot of room for applications and desk accessories act like applications. Some desk accessories get used a lot. If you close them everytime you're temporarily finished with them, you invite memory fragmentation. Following the advice of Connectix supplied with their version of Virtual, I've adopted the habit of never quitting anything I might possibly want to use later. With System 7, this is especially attractive because you have the option of Hiding an application's windows without kicking it out of memory. QuicKeys 2.1 allows you to define QuicKeys which use the System 7 application menu. I've defined one which chooses the Hide current application item. Now when I call up QuickDEX II to look up a phone number, I Hide it rather than close it. That way I don't fragment my memory and QuickDEX II comes up all that much quicker the next time because it doesn't have to launch from scratch. ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 46 Wed Jul 17, 1991 DOUG.ACKER [Doug] at 10:44 EDT Probably those Apple employees now on layoff :)) ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 47 Wed Jul 17, 1991 R.ZEITMAN4 [Randy] at 18:08 EDT Kent, they don't. They either read em in a Mac rag or have a friend at Apple. By the way, you can double click a icon title to launch it. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 48 Wed Jul 17, 1991 DOUG.ACKER [Doug] at 18:55 EDT Those Everready commericials are everywhere! :)) ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 49 Thu Jul 18, 1991 MACINFO [Norm Goodger] at 04:16 EDT If you open the Memory CDEV and turn on VM and press the option key on the popup there. You will see names with hiercarchal pop-outs with little comments.. yet another "hidden" feature... ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 50 Sat Jul 20, 1991 R.ZEITMAN4 [Randy] at 21:28 EDT You can double-click an icon name to launch it. When editing an icon name, hitting down arrow placed the cursor at the end of the name-very helpful when you're trying to delete "alias" from all your aliases. After all, they're already italic, it's redundant and it takes up room. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 51 Sat Jul 27, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 17:00 EDT Chuq, Back in the System 6 era you were a strong opponent of installing a System over an existing System--favoring instead creating a new System folder from scratch. I always followed your advice. This was easy advice to follow because all of my fonts, sounds, and DAs were loaded with Suitcase. Now, System 7 encourages dropping fonts and sounds directly into the System file (though DAs can still be kept conveniently separate). Do you still maintain the same position? If so, what's your advice on the procedure to reinstall? What does the installer do exactly when you ask it to install System 7.0 onto a disk which already has System 7.0 installed? It spends quite a bit of time "removing outdated files." Since none of my files are actually outdated (i.e. pre-7.0), does this mean that it removes and reinstalls everything? Obviously it keeps SOME of the resources which were in the original System file (viz., fonts, sounds, and KCHR resources I've installed), because they still show up in the new file. But it doesn't keep all of them, because it still reads the font intaller disk, even though those fonts were already present. So could it be that it completely removes and reinstalls every part of the System other than those parts I installed myself? If so, does that make reinstallation over an existing System safe? Thanks in advance for your views! ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 52 Sat Jul 27, 1991 MAC.BIGOT [Chuq] at 23:40 EDT Jim: I'm still a strong opponent of installing on top of an existing system. Personally, I still use Suitcase and keep most of my fonts and stuff out of the system file, just because I prefer it that way. If I were installing, I'd start from scratch, and then copy the stuff out of the old system file into the new one. The system is supposed to be smart enough to not copy corrupted resources, and I've seen a couple of cases where it trapped it for me. On the other hand, I'm not convinced that if the resource map is corrupted to start, that installing on top of it makes it possible to fix the resource map without deleting everything. So my basic advice still stands. chuq ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 53 Sun Jul 28, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 01:03 EDT Chuq, Thanks for your views on system installation. Installation seems like a pain if I think that it's the System file which has been corrupted. What about the idea of just keeping a fresh copy of the System file around (segregated from any Finder so that it doesn't look like a System folder) and then replacing the corrupted one with a new one? I.e. Is the installer doing anything special I can't emulate in this simple way? Thanks! ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 54 Sun Jul 28, 1991 MAC.BIGOT [Chuq] at 02:21 EDT Jim -- when I'm doing testing or programming (or anything else that I think is going to hose systems regularly) I keep a Stuffit or Compactor version of my System Folder on the disk as well. That not only takes up less space than a copy of the folder, but will tell me if for some reason the file got corrupted, because the unpack will fail. That way, I'm fairly certain I'm okay and at a known state. It's MUCH nicer than a re-install. I generally try to keep a reasonably up-to- date copy of ym system folder on a Syquest mechanism so I can boot from it, Just In Case. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 55 Sun Jul 28, 1991 J.SCOTT16 [J.] at 02:34 EDT I tried to install 7.0 over 6.07. B O O M !!! C R A S H !!! Well, not really, but the instalation was far from succesful. There were several 6.07 files left over, and the Extensions, control Panels, preferences, etc. folders were not created. It did boot as a system 7.0, though. The nice guy at apple stayed on the phone as I cleaned up the mess, seperated what I wanted and didn't want, and then finally deleted the system folder. Then he went through a full install with me. Nice guy... We had some interesting conversation while the installer was running... ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 56 Sun Jul 28, 1991 G.MATSUDA [Gann] at 04:24 EDT I also never install ANY version of the System over an existing version. And I try not to install anything into the System file. I use Suitcase. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 57 Sun Jul 28, 1991 TOMFERNANDEZ [Tom] at 10:06 EDT I usually do it on a weekly basis Gann, and have done so for years. I only use the installer when a major system update is released (like 5 to 6 or 6 to 7). I haven't had any problems with this method. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 58 Sun Jul 28, 1991 GUYRICE [ Guy ] at 17:34 EDT Here's probably the ultimate extreme: When I got System 7, I backed up my hard disk in its entirety onto tape (thank you Retrospect and Teac), then I REFORMATTED IT, installed System 7 onto the freshly formatted hard disk, copied Retrospect to the HD, then retrieved all the files I wanted back off the tape. I know, this is no doubt a ludicrously paranoid way to upgrade your system software, but it does make sure your disk has no errors, and forces you to make a complete backup of a system that you knew worked fine and could go back to if you needed to. And it optimizes your HD, too. :) Guy ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 59 Mon Jul 29, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 02:47 EDT Chuq, Thanks for the tip about keeping a compacted System folder around. That sounds like a good idea. (I.e. Why didn't I think of that!? :) ) Tom, Exactly what do you do every week? If you don't use the installer, do you mean you just swap out the System file (and Finder?) with a fresh copy? Guy, If that's ludicrously paranoid behavior, call the men in white for me too. That's also what I did! (I wanted to reformat to remove some unallocated sectors anyway which would have taken me approximately Avogadro's number of days to do manually with SUM II.) ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 60 Mon Jul 29, 1991 TOMFERNANDEZ [Tom] at 14:19 EDT I boot-up using a floppy and replace the System/Finder which is resident on my hard disk with the System/Finder which is on the floppy. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 61 Mon Jul 29, 1991 W.KUBECK [Mac+AppleToo] at 19:18 EDT Guy, you probably *are* ludicrously paranoid. That just proves that the crazy ones know what they're doing. I didn't go that far when I upgraded to 7.0, but I wasn't due for a total reality flush on that drive anyway. I just hid the old System folder, installed the new one, and then spent about a week or so deciding what I wanted of my old setup added to the new. I usually went back to the original disks and got fresh copies of the utilites. Needed to in some cases, because of required updates. -= Bill =- ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 62 Mon Jul 29, 1991 S.BERNSTEIN [shelly] at 23:29 EDT A while ago there was a thread on changing the default font in "Teach Text." Could someone help out and repeat the technique? Thanks, Shelly ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 63 Sun Aug 04, 1991 J.GOFF at 13:27 EDT I recently [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [C [CAfter installing System 7 from 6.05 on startup an init icon showed up with a skull and crossbones over what appeared to be three file folders. I trashed the entire system folder and reinstalled....no skull and crossbones [C [Ccon. I'm just curious.. where'd it come from and what's it mean? Couldn't find anything in my references. Thanks! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 64 Sun Aug 04, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 16:00 EDT J.Goff, That's an intriguing phenomenon! It sounds like your System was invaded by a sinister entity! ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 65 Sun Aug 04, 1991 KL7WF [Steve] at 18:07 EDT I've run into a slight problem. Some of the icons for various programs have reverted to the default application icon (the diamond with the hand holding a pen (?)). In patrticular, some of my Disk Doubler (3.7) applications, Solariamn II, and a couple others. The apps still run, but the original icons are gone. Any ideas? I had been running virtual memory on my internal hard drive (IIsi 40 Meg) but not 32 bit mode. I also have an external 105 Ehman. I am using aliases extensively, and have most of my application files labeled. Is labeling pretty clean? Steve ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 66 Mon Aug 05, 1991 MACINFO [Norm Goodger] at 03:24 EDT Steve, sounds like you have to rebuild your desktop files, command-option as you reboot. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 67 Thu Aug 08, 1991 J.GOFF at 16:35 EDT Any way to revert desk accessories (after being converted by System 7.0) to 6.05 compatibility? Thanks to anyone that can help! Jim Goff ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 68 Thu Aug 08, 1991 W.KUBECK [Mac+AppleToo] at 18:14 EDT Use Font/DA Mover to create an empty suitcase file, then move the DA into it. Works for fonts, too. -= Bill =- ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 69 Thu Aug 08, 1991 R.ZEITMAN4 [Randy] at 18:55 EDT change its type/creator back to DFIL,DMOV (I think). That is, I know it'll work but I'm not 100% on the two codes. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 70 Thu Aug 08, 1991 J.GOFF at 21:04 EDT T [C [C [C [C [C [Chanks Mac+AppleToo and Randy...appreciate the help. Jim Goff ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 71 Thu Aug 22, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 03:16 EDT I'm experiencing some problems when I "type ahead" of a dialog box. I.e., when I execute the command for a dialog box, then start typing the text I'll use in its text box before it comes on the screen. Sometimes when I do this, one of my drives just goes crazy. What I mean is that I have one drive devoted just to my virtual memory file and that drive also makes a distinctive noise. So when I hear it in a situation that shouldn't require virtual doing anything (I have 8 megs and virtual definitely shouldn't be doing anything when I have this problem), then I know something's up. When I say it goes crazy, I mean it makes its distinctive access sound and everything comes to a stop and I have to do a force quit on the application, and then usually a restart. Has this happened to anyone? Its probably an INIT conflict, but I have so many and it's an intermittent problem, so I'm at a loss to know which one it might be. Any suggestions would be appreciated! ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 72 Thu Aug 22, 1991 MACINFO [Norm Goodger] at 13:56 EDT Jim, it does sound like something that Virtual is doing, I had what you describe happen a few times to me.. Its like it goes looking for something in the swap file (whether you think it needs something from it or not) and cannot find it,and your dead.. If you have Macsbug installed, I recall getting Cannot Find errors or something to that affect in some cases.. I finally gave up on Virtual, added memory to get 8 megs and leave Virtual off, it appears to be much more stable. Perhaps Connectix's 3.0 version of Virtual will work better if its shipping? ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 73 Thu Aug 22, 1991 R.ZEITMAN4 [Randy] at 18:04 EDT No idea. Please keep the world posted! ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 74 Thu Aug 22, 1991 R.GAEKE [Brian Gaeke] at 22:05 EDT Have you tried using Apple's VM- or is that incompatible w/ your HD? --Brian ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 75 Thu Aug 22, 1991 J.RATLIFF1 [Jim] at 23:19 EDT Norm, (or was it Bill?) Thanks for your report of a similar experience. I see from the replies that I left the impression that I was using Connectix's Virtual. I did use Virtual under System 6, but switched to Apples VM under 7 because I heard that Virtual wasn't yet System 7 compatible. So my problems have been while using Apple's VM and System 7. So, Norm, it sounds like your problems were with Virtual. Was that under System 6 or 7? (I also upgraded to 8 megs, but I still like the devil-may-care attitude toward RAM which I get from using VM.) I'm glad you mentioned your experience as definitely being virtual memory related, because that allows me to focus my diagnostic energy on virtual first, rather than all my other INITs. Now I just have to work on finding a scenario which reliably reproduces this problem. BTW, What would Connetix bother to make Virtual System 7 compatible anyway since the capability's built into System 7? ___ | \_|IM ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 76 Fri Aug 23, 1991 MACINFO [Norm Goodger] at 03:34 EDT Jim, first it was me, second I was refering to Apple VM, I referer to Connectix Virtual 3.0 which does work under 7.0 as an option to Apple VM, which I think may work better..However I have not tried it to prove it. Why would Connectix make Virtual compatable with 7.0? I can think of a couple reasons, 6.0.x users that eventually upgrade may find their product better.. It maybe better and if they can show this to be the case with better features somehow, its can still be a viable product across pre 7.0 and 7.0 convertees.. ------------ Category 22, Topic 4 Message 77 Fri Aug 23, 1991 PHOTOBASE2 [John Crane] at 22:16 EDT Connectix Virtual for 6.0.x certainly seemed to be more stable than Apple's for 7.0. I called Connectix a couple weeks ago, and they said they will be coming up with an upgrade for System 7 ... in a few weeks I think they said. ------------